Presto music is another streaming service with even better pay per stream.
Per the company: "Since launching our streaming service in 2023, we’ve been stating that the combination of paying rightsholders per second (rather than ‘per play’) AND focussing purely on classical and jazz repertoire means that we’re often paying out up to 10x more than other major streaming services. "
quincy jones' streaming platform qwest also has a lot of jazz. i appreciate the recommendations from their email newsletters. they've kept it going after he passed.
Why use any of these services at all? We know they are fraught with exploitation. The old systems still work and they are free. I don't know how I have managed w/o music streaming services. /s This is an example of how people are pressured into using stuff that they don't really need or even want. Maybe I'm old school, and as a former DJ (college and community radio) and someone who ordered music for a library, I have never lacked access to music. As a long time festival and live music attendee I get introduced to lots of great music. I also listen to Eclectic 24 on KCRM out of Santa Monica as well as the local community radio station. It may be time to rethink all the ways we have lot the algorithm into our lives and ask if it is worth it.
Liz Perry who wrote Mood Machine: The Rise of Spotify and the Costs of the Perfect Playlist argues that there is no ethical streaming service. Having said that going to a more ethical streaming service is going from smoking to nicotine patch, unplugging does involve some change in habits, grieving of access to all this music and more. Lately, I have been reminded the radio exists and I never see it promoted as an alternative to streaming services. Also check out @subverworld which is building a cooperative alternative to Bandcamp.
The old systems are free? What am I missing? I both stream and listen the fashioned way (records and CDs at home, Apple Music when I’m on the move and my phone is the source). I love my home system, but I’ve spent a small fortune on that equipment and all of the music. Streaming is practically free in comparison.
You only "get access" to those songs for as long as the company remains afloat. Streaming and subscription services in general are volatile; it's not a guarantee that they'll still be here in ten years' time, or that the subscription fee will remain $10/mo.
Assume you spend $1200 on a Spotify subscription over the next decade, and I spend that time slowly acquiring albums instead. If streaming as a business model collapses in 2035, you'll have spent $1200 on something you don't own and can no longer access, while I'll have spent the same amount of money on 120+ albums that I own and can listen to for the rest of my life.
Streaming only makes sense to me in the short term, or if you're the sort of person who's constantly listening to new music. Most people (especially as they age) have staples in their rotation that they return to over and over again. Owning albums makes more sense over the long term. Like I said in a recent blog post of mine, I'll probably still be rocking out to Hot Fuss in my retirement home, so why on earth should I rent it from Daniel Ek for the next 4+ decades?
So I would fall into the "sort of person who's constantly listening to new music". Last year on Apple Music I listened to over 5,000 songs and 2,000 artists. If I had to buy each album for that assuming an average of 10 songs an album that would be 500 albums. If I bought all those as records it would have cost me $15,000 (500 x $30) but instead I paid $120.
Also I have no interest in carrying around or possessing 500 physical albums. I can see collecting albums as a hobby though, I have a small collection for albums I really like but it's pretty inconvenient to listen to music only on an album.
"If streaming as a business model collapses in 2035" - its far more likely the album making industry collapses before the streaming music collapses. In the U.S., physical music formats (vinyl, CDs) generate a total revenue of around $1.7 billion vs music streaming revenues of around 20 billion.
I whole heartily support artists making more from streaming services and I think Spotify is trash as well but the world isn't going to go back to physical media as the primary way to listen to and find music.
In that case, streaming makes sense *for you*. It doesn't make sense for everyone, though. Streaming companies are selling the idea that streaming is a universal solution for all music fans, but it just isn't.
Physical albums are not the only viable alternative to streaming... Digital album sales are still a thing. I could easily store and carry around 500+ albums on a SSD that's smaller than my phone (or I could just store them on my phone).
But did you listen to all albums if each of those artists because it sounds like you averaged only 2.5 songs. As such you could have just bought those. I don't buy whole albums anymore. Granted, it still would cost you more to buy them but do you ever listen to the same song again? I'd hope so or that means you don't like any of the music you listen to and your $120 was completely wasted. If you do listen to each song again and you continue to do so in the future then those payment count against now too.
Good Job! My husband quit Spotify a few months ago. So proud. Now we need to quit Gmail/Google. If you are able to do it, please write up what you did! I switched to Duck Duck Go for searches but my email and mapping and website are still trapped . Sigh!
Proton can replace Gmail, Google Drive, and Google Authenticator. They've built a basic Google Docs replacement which is good enough for online collaboration, and also offer a password manager and a VPN. It's not free, but it's not expensive either. Their CEO's politics are potentially shitty, so you might want to look into that before signing up.
I will second this. And they have a migration scrtipt that makes it stone axe simple to move. 5 years ago it sucked to move, now it is a push button, and 45 minutes later it's done.
Oh yeah, and they have a photo backup thingy built into their iOS and Android Proton Drive app that can sync your entire iPhoto library to make it accessible on both platforms.
Do you have to update your accounts that use your Gmail account? For example banks, credit cards, everything really or is done automatically when you to switch to proton?
Proton will migrate all of your email and also set up forwarding, but you will need to change the email address on all the accounts that use your Gmail address to move away permanently. Proton also tags emails coming from Gmail, so you can find accounts still using Gmail over time.
I'm also working on de-Googling since the big G has my main email address and I also have a lot of photos backed up to Google Drive. I'm working on pulling those off onto an external hard drive so that I can still access them if needed, but I rarely look at the vast majority. Maybe then Google Drive will stop shaking me down for payment with the threat of cutting off my emails. As for email, I looked into alternatives for some time and opened up an account with Mailfence, which I know also has a broader suite of office tools. But I can't decide whether to reserve the new address for important things and leave the junk for Gmail, or switch the bulk of my email volume to Mailfence and only keep Gmail for select things. Decisions, decisions...
You could do map quest. Still haven’t made Gulf of Mexico Gulf of America on the app, like Google did immediately. As for email, I have to keep my Google email only for work. I only use it on my work computer, and took it off my phone. I never use the Google search. Husband also got rid of Spotify.
The maps I use for transit times and mapquest I don't think has that. Though I know there are various tracker apps and the company app but my husband has one of those and it has not been accurate. I also love My Maps for researching routes or documentation. A guy from the Netherlands showed me OsmAnd map app and it's free to download three areas. You dont need the Internet and it's great for trails. But I'm wondering if I can use if for other mapping features like tracking routes. Im also hounded to pay extra for Google storage and have a Google phone ... But I'm slowing chipping away! Email change hopefully in 2026.
Any major tech company will eventually be the same. It's just how it works. At one point Google was the good guys with their "do no evil" slogan. Whoever we run to ends up at the same place later.
I recommend checking out Infomaniak for Gmail/Drive replacement. They're not as "private" as Proton if that is of concern, but they have detailed and transparent information about what data they collect and how they use it on their website. My main reason for switching to them is because they are very climate-focused (certified B corp!) and you can easily use basic services for free.
I use Ecosia as a search tool within Firefox. And MapQuest has it's issues but works for now.
I pay for Kagi search and love it. A few months ago I started converting from Gmail to iCloud. It’s a long process. Ultimately, my Gmail will become my junk account.
I do Duck-Duck-Go and I switched my 20-year-old gmail to Proton. Took a few days but worth it. My inbox is always ‘clean’, robo calls have nearly stopped (turned my voicemail to a 2-minute recording of silence!), and even snailmail junk mail has stopped. All that and more. Yes, Proton CEO politics are not what I support and as I restructure my entire life, basically, away from giving 1 cent to any oligarch or company that uses the people to grift.
I have personally found Apple Music to be a bit clunky and eventually settled on Tidal, which I think offers the best balance of catalogue, features, and user experience.
As someone who's worked in music streaming for a long time, I have to clarify something about the payouts, though:
Low per-stream royalties are usually a signal of a service's success.
Streaming services commit to paying roughly the same % of people's subscription money out to rightsholders. When a service is good, people listen to more music, which lowers the per-stream royalty rate. But time spent on the service is also one of the most important indicators of subscriber retention: the less time spent, the more likely people are to cancel their subscription.
This is embedded in all of music streaming. If Qobuz were better at getting people to listen more, their per-stream royalties would drop, but their overall payouts would likely rise, as they'd hold on to more subscribers (!).
Having said that, other practices at Spotify are worth criticising, which is why I don't use the service myself. But as a consumer, there are also other things you can be doing to make things fairer for artists - the main thing is to bring more intention to your streaming and not rely on recommendation algorithms. I've written about it here: https://www.calmfluffy.cloud/p/the-slow-streaming-movement-counteracting
Thank you for explaining this! Your article is also very helpful in understanding the ins and outs of streaming music. Love the suggestion to listen to more albums.
Yeah I really like this. I'm here for practical ways to even partially demachine our lives. Too puritanical and no one will see it through. This guide is right in the sweet spot.
An algorithm-created playlist is narrativeless, but a thoughtfully created playlist of songs curated by a human with intentional transitions and arcs can be full of narrative. Similar to a well-paced set on a radio station, or a carefully planned soundtrack to a movie.
I recently switched to self-hosting. Navidrome works great. I ripped all my CDs, bought some otherwise hard to find ones on Bandcamp or Qobuz and I'm pretty happy with this setup.
My only complaint about Qobuz is that, just because I live in Switzerland, they decided that they'll serve the website in French and it seems to be impossible to change. Whenever I try to switch to a language that I speak, they force redirect me back to the French page.
Appreciate you putting this list together. I am curious what your typical listening setup is considering you said Tidal sounds noticeably better than Apple Music.
For most people on most headphones, that shouldn’t be the case. Apple supports lossless ALAC while Tidal supports lossless FLAC/WAV, but those should sound pretty much identical. For most listeners who also likely use Bluetooth the majority of the time, there is no difference. Just figured it’s worth mentioning!
I certainly hear the difference between Spotify, baseline Apple Music, and Tidal and Qobuz! I have some Bang + Olufssen headphones I got used at a sidewalk sale, they're good but not great I'd say. But the biggest part of this to me isn't the audio quality to be fair
Interesting! I’ll have to do a comparison again. But yes, it’s definitely the least crucial part of this conversation.
I’ve been an Apple Music user for a long time but I’m working my way towards private streaming local files (PLEX server) as my primary method of music listening, with the collectively-owned Subvert hopefully replacing Bandcamp one day as the primary storefront. That and thrifting/burning old CDs!
I would assume the difference is compression and volume. Possibly you can try setting then “equalize song volume” if the service has such a setting to see if that makes a difference. I don’t believe there should be a difference in the quality of the source material or the lossless signal.
If you are on android, apple music is only capable of up to 48khz sample rate due to a restriction within the android audio processing. Still better than spotify, and for a lot of music that covers the full sample rate available. However, for the hi-res stuff that goes up to 192khz, tidal or qobuz running on a 3rd party app like USB audio pro works around the android limitation and gives you full sample rate.
As for the bluetooth issue, yes, the discussion of audio quality becomes mostly moot if you only listen via bluetooth. However, bluetooth is and always will be a compromised way to listen. That's like saying there's no difference between a DVD and blu-ray because most people watch movies on shitty screens. Sure, that may be the case, but if you CARE about experiencing art you should put in the bare minimum of effort to get a decent set-up that won't compromise the experience. It's much simpler, less of a hassle (no connection issues or dead batteries), and avoids re-introducing compression if you stick with traditional wired connections. My sennheiser hd6xxs and good ol' aux cord into my receiver aren't going anywhere.
I fell off Spotify years ago, and I've never really felt like going back. Good to know I've been missing jack shit.
For an additional (if out-of-left-field) recommendation, Newgrounds' Audio Portal (https://www.newgrounds.com/audio), whilst not a replacement for the big streamers, is a damn good service in its own right, especially if you wanna discover some lesser-known/underground artists.
Whilst it doesn't pay royalties (neither NG nor the artists make money off your listens), it does have a human mod team identifying and purging slop 24/7, and isn't being run by a faceless tech giant or a billionaire shithead.
Step 1. Get a reference level-grade audio setup (basically a 90$ Fiio DAC and a $10 pair of Chinese electrostatic/planar IEMs). Step 2. Set up your Plex server with the Plexamp player. Step 3. Get a decent Vinyl rip (from Soulsick or somesuch) of your favorite album (be it The Beatles, Black Sabbath, the Flaming Lips, Daft Punk or King Gizzard). Step 4. LISTEN TO IT ONCE. You're NEVER going back to the shitty remastered, bubble gum-equalized crap provided by the 99.9% of the streaming services (with some Tidal audiophile releaseases being the not-so-notable exception). You can crate-hunt for those LPs later if you're dead-set on paying money to the labels or anything, but the gap in quality is obvious and flabbergasting. And it's within your easy reach!
Quitting Spotify has led me to something I’ve been thinking about for a long time but just now starting - self hosting my media. I’m over subscription models and have been testing and researching plex, jellyfin, Doppler, and any other open source or one time payment services to store my media. Go to the library and check out your favorite albums and movies, rip em, and now you have it to enjoy whenever you want for free alongside using SoundCloud to purchase music from the artist with the money I’m saving on subscription models.
Mostly all good points, but, you do lose a lot of music from other countries switching to these more obscure streaming services. Japanese music, for example, is very limited on Qobuz. You also lose out on the wonderful Discover Weekly playlist which I have discovered tons of new and old music from. That just isn't replicated on any other streaming platform. You can still access it for free though using free Spotify, but if you aren't playing music on it, the list won't be as good. I'm glad you are able to change and i'm all about diversifying away from power conglomerates, but delude yourself thinking that you have access to a similar type of catalog.
Isn't it crazy that you are upset at Spotify's CEO (a Swedishman) for stepping up to fund Europe's defense against an imperial Russian invasion with millions dead and counting? Do you support Vladimir Putin's fascism?
If Ek were giving that money to the Ukraine military, or even a Ukrainian defense startup maybe you could argue that's what he's doing — he's funding a German AI / drone tech startup, and the linkage is pretty tenuous. Anyway, the artists simply argue their music shouldn't fund bloodshed, and I can sympathize with that. Fuck Putin obviously
As you do not share any border with Russia, it is easy for you to make such "ah just don't fund bloodshed, am I right?" platitudes from the comfort of your secure home. Over here in Europe we live in reality, and the genocidal actions of Russia and Donald J. Trump's abandonment of NATO security guarantees makes one thing clear: there are going to be a lot more Daniel Eks investing in our shared security, and your screeching is not going to change anything.
Quitting Spotify has been on my To Do list for several years now. I finally got around to "attempting" to move to Qobuz per Brian's article here. I was cheapskate and didnt pay for soundiiz in the transfers so I just split my library into 200 songs playlists, imported those, and re-combined them.
However, I hate to say it, the Library is actually much worse than Spotify. I went from about 1050 songs on my main Spotify to 775 on Qobuz. Some of those are just because they're technically there but under different releases for varying reasons, but a lot just.. aren't. And I'm not even into that esoteric: usually varying levels of downtempo synthwave and 80s electropop or shoegaze stuff!
I also hate to say it, I really do not like the Qobuz app interface on PC. There's no sidebar for playlists or songs that I can tell and it's kinda... limited. I dont know, I'm not going to be doing YouTube Music and .. yeah not doing Apple Music.
I might just try to RETVRN to building a curated .mp3 library and figuring out some wway to use my PLEX NAS server as an music service for my phone/desktop
Presto music is another streaming service with even better pay per stream.
Per the company: "Since launching our streaming service in 2023, we’ve been stating that the combination of paying rightsholders per second (rather than ‘per play’) AND focussing purely on classical and jazz repertoire means that we’re often paying out up to 10x more than other major streaming services. "
https://www.prestomusic.com/classical/articles/6209--announcement-fair-play-how-much-do-different-streaming-services-pay
https://www.prestomusic.com/about
I'll have to check this one out! I don't listen to a *ton* of classical and jazz alas
It’s just interesting to me that there is a model that has such a higher rate of return for artists. Maybe that is duplicatable
Thanks for the tip, that looks good!
quincy jones' streaming platform qwest also has a lot of jazz. i appreciate the recommendations from their email newsletters. they've kept it going after he passed.
https://www.qwest.tv/
Why use any of these services at all? We know they are fraught with exploitation. The old systems still work and they are free. I don't know how I have managed w/o music streaming services. /s This is an example of how people are pressured into using stuff that they don't really need or even want. Maybe I'm old school, and as a former DJ (college and community radio) and someone who ordered music for a library, I have never lacked access to music. As a long time festival and live music attendee I get introduced to lots of great music. I also listen to Eclectic 24 on KCRM out of Santa Monica as well as the local community radio station. It may be time to rethink all the ways we have lot the algorithm into our lives and ask if it is worth it.
Very good points. If there is a way to do streaming non-exploitatively, then it's worth pursuing — but maybe it's just not!
Certainly possible to simply purchase music, borrow it from the library, listen to the radio, and have all your music listening needs met.
(I also listen to KCRM, broadcasts not too far from my home!)
Try the app Radio Garden.
Liz Perry who wrote Mood Machine: The Rise of Spotify and the Costs of the Perfect Playlist argues that there is no ethical streaming service. Having said that going to a more ethical streaming service is going from smoking to nicotine patch, unplugging does involve some change in habits, grieving of access to all this music and more. Lately, I have been reminded the radio exists and I never see it promoted as an alternative to streaming services. Also check out @subverworld which is building a cooperative alternative to Bandcamp.
The old systems are free? What am I missing? I both stream and listen the fashioned way (records and CDs at home, Apple Music when I’m on the move and my phone is the source). I love my home system, but I’ve spent a small fortune on that equipment and all of the music. Streaming is practically free in comparison.
"Why use any of these services at all?"
Because for around $10 a month you can get access to over 100 million songs vs 1 album if you buy the cd. 🤷
Guess you don't mind supporting ICE ads with your "$10".
Spotify isn’t the only streaming service there is and I was replying to you specifically asking why anyone would use streaming services.
I left Spotify a few years ago for Apple Music which is way better than Spotify. I would never go back.
You only "get access" to those songs for as long as the company remains afloat. Streaming and subscription services in general are volatile; it's not a guarantee that they'll still be here in ten years' time, or that the subscription fee will remain $10/mo.
Assume you spend $1200 on a Spotify subscription over the next decade, and I spend that time slowly acquiring albums instead. If streaming as a business model collapses in 2035, you'll have spent $1200 on something you don't own and can no longer access, while I'll have spent the same amount of money on 120+ albums that I own and can listen to for the rest of my life.
Streaming only makes sense to me in the short term, or if you're the sort of person who's constantly listening to new music. Most people (especially as they age) have staples in their rotation that they return to over and over again. Owning albums makes more sense over the long term. Like I said in a recent blog post of mine, I'll probably still be rocking out to Hot Fuss in my retirement home, so why on earth should I rent it from Daniel Ek for the next 4+ decades?
So I would fall into the "sort of person who's constantly listening to new music". Last year on Apple Music I listened to over 5,000 songs and 2,000 artists. If I had to buy each album for that assuming an average of 10 songs an album that would be 500 albums. If I bought all those as records it would have cost me $15,000 (500 x $30) but instead I paid $120.
Also I have no interest in carrying around or possessing 500 physical albums. I can see collecting albums as a hobby though, I have a small collection for albums I really like but it's pretty inconvenient to listen to music only on an album.
"If streaming as a business model collapses in 2035" - its far more likely the album making industry collapses before the streaming music collapses. In the U.S., physical music formats (vinyl, CDs) generate a total revenue of around $1.7 billion vs music streaming revenues of around 20 billion.
I whole heartily support artists making more from streaming services and I think Spotify is trash as well but the world isn't going to go back to physical media as the primary way to listen to and find music.
In that case, streaming makes sense *for you*. It doesn't make sense for everyone, though. Streaming companies are selling the idea that streaming is a universal solution for all music fans, but it just isn't.
Physical albums are not the only viable alternative to streaming... Digital album sales are still a thing. I could easily store and carry around 500+ albums on a SSD that's smaller than my phone (or I could just store them on my phone).
But did you listen to all albums if each of those artists because it sounds like you averaged only 2.5 songs. As such you could have just bought those. I don't buy whole albums anymore. Granted, it still would cost you more to buy them but do you ever listen to the same song again? I'd hope so or that means you don't like any of the music you listen to and your $120 was completely wasted. If you do listen to each song again and you continue to do so in the future then those payment count against now too.
Good Job! My husband quit Spotify a few months ago. So proud. Now we need to quit Gmail/Google. If you are able to do it, please write up what you did! I switched to Duck Duck Go for searches but my email and mapping and website are still trapped . Sigh!
Proton can replace Gmail, Google Drive, and Google Authenticator. They've built a basic Google Docs replacement which is good enough for online collaboration, and also offer a password manager and a VPN. It's not free, but it's not expensive either. Their CEO's politics are potentially shitty, so you might want to look into that before signing up.
I will second this. And they have a migration scrtipt that makes it stone axe simple to move. 5 years ago it sucked to move, now it is a push button, and 45 minutes later it's done.
Oh yeah, and they have a photo backup thingy built into their iOS and Android Proton Drive app that can sync your entire iPhoto library to make it accessible on both platforms.
Do you have to update your accounts that use your Gmail account? For example banks, credit cards, everything really or is done automatically when you to switch to proton?
Proton will migrate all of your email and also set up forwarding, but you will need to change the email address on all the accounts that use your Gmail address to move away permanently. Proton also tags emails coming from Gmail, so you can find accounts still using Gmail over time.
Thank you!
Paris Marx recently did a whole episode about switching to alternate services which I'd really recommend: https://www.techwontsave.us/episode/300_we_need_to_cut_our_dependence_on_us_tech_heres_how_to_start
Thanks!
I'm also working on de-Googling since the big G has my main email address and I also have a lot of photos backed up to Google Drive. I'm working on pulling those off onto an external hard drive so that I can still access them if needed, but I rarely look at the vast majority. Maybe then Google Drive will stop shaking me down for payment with the threat of cutting off my emails. As for email, I looked into alternatives for some time and opened up an account with Mailfence, which I know also has a broader suite of office tools. But I can't decide whether to reserve the new address for important things and leave the junk for Gmail, or switch the bulk of my email volume to Mailfence and only keep Gmail for select things. Decisions, decisions...
You could do map quest. Still haven’t made Gulf of Mexico Gulf of America on the app, like Google did immediately. As for email, I have to keep my Google email only for work. I only use it on my work computer, and took it off my phone. I never use the Google search. Husband also got rid of Spotify.
The maps I use for transit times and mapquest I don't think has that. Though I know there are various tracker apps and the company app but my husband has one of those and it has not been accurate. I also love My Maps for researching routes or documentation. A guy from the Netherlands showed me OsmAnd map app and it's free to download three areas. You dont need the Internet and it's great for trails. But I'm wondering if I can use if for other mapping features like tracking routes. Im also hounded to pay extra for Google storage and have a Google phone ... But I'm slowing chipping away! Email change hopefully in 2026.
Any major tech company will eventually be the same. It's just how it works. At one point Google was the good guys with their "do no evil" slogan. Whoever we run to ends up at the same place later.
I recommend checking out Infomaniak for Gmail/Drive replacement. They're not as "private" as Proton if that is of concern, but they have detailed and transparent information about what data they collect and how they use it on their website. My main reason for switching to them is because they are very climate-focused (certified B corp!) and you can easily use basic services for free.
I use Ecosia as a search tool within Firefox. And MapQuest has it's issues but works for now.
I pay for Kagi search and love it. A few months ago I started converting from Gmail to iCloud. It’s a long process. Ultimately, my Gmail will become my junk account.
I do Duck-Duck-Go and I switched my 20-year-old gmail to Proton. Took a few days but worth it. My inbox is always ‘clean’, robo calls have nearly stopped (turned my voicemail to a 2-minute recording of silence!), and even snailmail junk mail has stopped. All that and more. Yes, Proton CEO politics are not what I support and as I restructure my entire life, basically, away from giving 1 cent to any oligarch or company that uses the people to grift.
I have personally found Apple Music to be a bit clunky and eventually settled on Tidal, which I think offers the best balance of catalogue, features, and user experience.
As someone who's worked in music streaming for a long time, I have to clarify something about the payouts, though:
Low per-stream royalties are usually a signal of a service's success.
Streaming services commit to paying roughly the same % of people's subscription money out to rightsholders. When a service is good, people listen to more music, which lowers the per-stream royalty rate. But time spent on the service is also one of the most important indicators of subscriber retention: the less time spent, the more likely people are to cancel their subscription.
This is embedded in all of music streaming. If Qobuz were better at getting people to listen more, their per-stream royalties would drop, but their overall payouts would likely rise, as they'd hold on to more subscribers (!).
Having said that, other practices at Spotify are worth criticising, which is why I don't use the service myself. But as a consumer, there are also other things you can be doing to make things fairer for artists - the main thing is to bring more intention to your streaming and not rely on recommendation algorithms. I've written about it here: https://www.calmfluffy.cloud/p/the-slow-streaming-movement-counteracting
Thank you for explaining this! Your article is also very helpful in understanding the ins and outs of streaming music. Love the suggestion to listen to more albums.
Yeah I really like this. I'm here for practical ways to even partially demachine our lives. Too puritanical and no one will see it through. This guide is right in the sweet spot.
Cheers Liam
A playlist has no narrative. it is empty. Sounds that you want to hear. Endless noises to trap into nothingness.
An album is a Journey. A narrative through the mind of the artist.
Spotify is slop.
An album is intellectual.
An algorithm-created playlist is narrativeless, but a thoughtfully created playlist of songs curated by a human with intentional transitions and arcs can be full of narrative. Similar to a well-paced set on a radio station, or a carefully planned soundtrack to a movie.
I recently switched to self-hosting. Navidrome works great. I ripped all my CDs, bought some otherwise hard to find ones on Bandcamp or Qobuz and I'm pretty happy with this setup.
My only complaint about Qobuz is that, just because I live in Switzerland, they decided that they'll serve the website in French and it seems to be impossible to change. Whenever I try to switch to a language that I speak, they force redirect me back to the French page.
Appreciate you putting this list together. I am curious what your typical listening setup is considering you said Tidal sounds noticeably better than Apple Music.
For most people on most headphones, that shouldn’t be the case. Apple supports lossless ALAC while Tidal supports lossless FLAC/WAV, but those should sound pretty much identical. For most listeners who also likely use Bluetooth the majority of the time, there is no difference. Just figured it’s worth mentioning!
I certainly hear the difference between Spotify, baseline Apple Music, and Tidal and Qobuz! I have some Bang + Olufssen headphones I got used at a sidewalk sale, they're good but not great I'd say. But the biggest part of this to me isn't the audio quality to be fair
Interesting! I’ll have to do a comparison again. But yes, it’s definitely the least crucial part of this conversation.
I’ve been an Apple Music user for a long time but I’m working my way towards private streaming local files (PLEX server) as my primary method of music listening, with the collectively-owned Subvert hopefully replacing Bandcamp one day as the primary storefront. That and thrifting/burning old CDs!
Discogs
I would assume the difference is compression and volume. Possibly you can try setting then “equalize song volume” if the service has such a setting to see if that makes a difference. I don’t believe there should be a difference in the quality of the source material or the lossless signal.
If you are on android, apple music is only capable of up to 48khz sample rate due to a restriction within the android audio processing. Still better than spotify, and for a lot of music that covers the full sample rate available. However, for the hi-res stuff that goes up to 192khz, tidal or qobuz running on a 3rd party app like USB audio pro works around the android limitation and gives you full sample rate.
As for the bluetooth issue, yes, the discussion of audio quality becomes mostly moot if you only listen via bluetooth. However, bluetooth is and always will be a compromised way to listen. That's like saying there's no difference between a DVD and blu-ray because most people watch movies on shitty screens. Sure, that may be the case, but if you CARE about experiencing art you should put in the bare minimum of effort to get a decent set-up that won't compromise the experience. It's much simpler, less of a hassle (no connection issues or dead batteries), and avoids re-introducing compression if you stick with traditional wired connections. My sennheiser hd6xxs and good ol' aux cord into my receiver aren't going anywhere.
Yesssss! I had been missing Joanna Newsom! We left Spotify a while ago but I forgot to recheck for her. Thank you for bringing this to my attention!
Like a warm reunion with an old twee friend! Listened right through Ys and Have one on me
I fell off Spotify years ago, and I've never really felt like going back. Good to know I've been missing jack shit.
For an additional (if out-of-left-field) recommendation, Newgrounds' Audio Portal (https://www.newgrounds.com/audio), whilst not a replacement for the big streamers, is a damn good service in its own right, especially if you wanna discover some lesser-known/underground artists.
Whilst it doesn't pay royalties (neither NG nor the artists make money off your listens), it does have a human mod team identifying and purging slop 24/7, and isn't being run by a faceless tech giant or a billionaire shithead.
Hadn't heard of this one, cheers
I think this is the kick I need to leave Spotify. Qobuz is good and has almost all the music I listen to anyways!
Also, it is totally free to use soundiiz to move from spotify to qobuz following qobuz's guide!
https://help.qobuz.com/en/articles/58315-how-to-transfer-your-playlists-for-free-with-soundiiz
Step 1. Get a reference level-grade audio setup (basically a 90$ Fiio DAC and a $10 pair of Chinese electrostatic/planar IEMs). Step 2. Set up your Plex server with the Plexamp player. Step 3. Get a decent Vinyl rip (from Soulsick or somesuch) of your favorite album (be it The Beatles, Black Sabbath, the Flaming Lips, Daft Punk or King Gizzard). Step 4. LISTEN TO IT ONCE. You're NEVER going back to the shitty remastered, bubble gum-equalized crap provided by the 99.9% of the streaming services (with some Tidal audiophile releaseases being the not-so-notable exception). You can crate-hunt for those LPs later if you're dead-set on paying money to the labels or anything, but the gap in quality is obvious and flabbergasting. And it's within your easy reach!
Quitting Spotify has led me to something I’ve been thinking about for a long time but just now starting - self hosting my media. I’m over subscription models and have been testing and researching plex, jellyfin, Doppler, and any other open source or one time payment services to store my media. Go to the library and check out your favorite albums and movies, rip em, and now you have it to enjoy whenever you want for free alongside using SoundCloud to purchase music from the artist with the money I’m saving on subscription models.
Love this.
Does this scale while traveling, or is this a purely local solution?
It depends on the setup you have, the r/selfhosting community has a lot of info on how.
Mostly all good points, but, you do lose a lot of music from other countries switching to these more obscure streaming services. Japanese music, for example, is very limited on Qobuz. You also lose out on the wonderful Discover Weekly playlist which I have discovered tons of new and old music from. That just isn't replicated on any other streaming platform. You can still access it for free though using free Spotify, but if you aren't playing music on it, the list won't be as good. I'm glad you are able to change and i'm all about diversifying away from power conglomerates, but delude yourself thinking that you have access to a similar type of catalog.
Isn't it crazy that you are upset at Spotify's CEO (a Swedishman) for stepping up to fund Europe's defense against an imperial Russian invasion with millions dead and counting? Do you support Vladimir Putin's fascism?
If Ek were giving that money to the Ukraine military, or even a Ukrainian defense startup maybe you could argue that's what he's doing — he's funding a German AI / drone tech startup, and the linkage is pretty tenuous. Anyway, the artists simply argue their music shouldn't fund bloodshed, and I can sympathize with that. Fuck Putin obviously
As you do not share any border with Russia, it is easy for you to make such "ah just don't fund bloodshed, am I right?" platitudes from the comfort of your secure home. Over here in Europe we live in reality, and the genocidal actions of Russia and Donald J. Trump's abandonment of NATO security guarantees makes one thing clear: there are going to be a lot more Daniel Eks investing in our shared security, and your screeching is not going to change anything.
Quitting Spotify has been on my To Do list for several years now. I finally got around to "attempting" to move to Qobuz per Brian's article here. I was cheapskate and didnt pay for soundiiz in the transfers so I just split my library into 200 songs playlists, imported those, and re-combined them.
However, I hate to say it, the Library is actually much worse than Spotify. I went from about 1050 songs on my main Spotify to 775 on Qobuz. Some of those are just because they're technically there but under different releases for varying reasons, but a lot just.. aren't. And I'm not even into that esoteric: usually varying levels of downtempo synthwave and 80s electropop or shoegaze stuff!
I also hate to say it, I really do not like the Qobuz app interface on PC. There's no sidebar for playlists or songs that I can tell and it's kinda... limited. I dont know, I'm not going to be doing YouTube Music and .. yeah not doing Apple Music.
I might just try to RETVRN to building a curated .mp3 library and figuring out some wway to use my PLEX NAS server as an music service for my phone/desktop